I have a CG13DE conversion in the works.

Yes, a Nissan micra 1.3.

This seems to have been a hotly debated topic about the worth of doing it, the way I look at it:

It's 100hp ATW
It's lighter than an A-Series
fits without cutting the body (this is the big one for me)
5 Speeds blah blah

I haven't got the motor yet, but I have been doing a lot of research, it's quite popular in the UK.

The UK produces some, 'interesting' engineering when it comes to subframes.
After the recent discussion about the 4EFTE subframes that hang entirely off the towers, I got to designing my own from pictures of british ones.

Here is what I have:



Nothing here is to a particular scale, but I drew it freehand and tried to keep it to correct-ish dimensions.

Drivers side top spar:
Will have a thick spreader plate, covering as much surface area as possible to spread the load.
Loops around to the front bar, and back under the subframe all the way back to the pick up points on the body. This seems like the sturdiest way to do it.

Passenger side top spar:
I don't want to cut the body, or rad shroud, so it's welded along the inside of the turret (like nigel's vtec frame)
Same as the other side, picks up the front and all the back way to the body mounts.

Between the tower is braced.

You'll also notice the diff on the motor (excuse the crude model) sticks through the web on the back, so it obviously has to be cut around.

I was thinking a good way to reintroduce some strength into this area would be a second bar between the towers, welded along the top of the webbing. Then bend it up and over the diff to meet the top bar.

Could also weld either:
A. Thick plate between the rear 'feet' that bolt to the body, to regain strength
B. Similar to Josh's 4EFTE subframe, weld a bar between the two holes on the rear feet (forgot to model those, oops)
C. Bend a weld a tube to the inside edge of the rear feet, all the way around.

Any opinions and criticisms are welcome, as it's obviously still in planning stages.
Needs more gussets and things, so feel free to mention where you they need to go.

SimonK, wouldn't mind hearing your opinion too

Cheers

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You're so square
Baby I don't care

My friend had one of these micras and they are a great engine. From what i have read about these engines they say they are significantly strangled by the standard exhaust/cams/ intake/tune. And are apparently very strong engine.
The cars are still reasonably popular in japan but like you say, very popular in the uk as they were built there i am lead to believe. ( the indicator is on the wrong side).

I think it would be a great conversion. It would be a good base for building a cool NA screamer.

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Tim
Dusk Blue
1964 850

Adam is this for the Clubman or the Moke out of interest sake?

MrFail
Yeah, the whole conversion I mean is very popular in the UK.
Not just the K11 Micra.

Have you seen the intake? It double backs on itself
So new intake for bike carbs and new headers would be a must.

Marchie
it's for the clubman.

_________________
You're so square
Baby I don't care

Your frame design is right in having it connect and run underneath.

In what world does a CG13DE make 100HP ATW?

Everywhere i read put it at factory 58Kw or 78HP...at the flywheel which would put it around the power output of a very modest 1275 or very worked 1100. I'd say around 55HP ATW, not exactly earth shattering for the effort.

5 speeds doesn't work out as a massive advantage on the highway usually unless you change the final drive. You just get a wider range of gear selection and a short 1st gear.

The effort/cost of building a subframe, cost of engineering, cost of engine are not outweighed by the fuel economy, 5 speeds, reliability IMO. There are new laws governing conversions in NSW as well which put further hoops and cost in place.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Remember that you have to fit, intake, exhaust, radiator, alternator (important as they usually point the other way) all the associated wiring and fuse boxes and being a post ADR car probably a booster etc, etc. what looks like a straight in with no mods always seems to not work out, if your doing it in a clubby it does make life slightly easier I guess. Having driven a few micras though I'd be looking elsewhere, they feel like driving a desk fan so make sure you know you can pull power out of it before spending 10k on a conversion.

Frame looks about right, although I'd ask and engineer and be careful about what information you get on here as perfect world situations people seem to ask for aren't always achievable when you start building it!

But, don't let me stop you, all I want for my engine conversion thread is encouragement so good luck with it! And if you want to do it, then do it! Your car after all

I've always loved this engine for conversion. A thread I started a while back might have some inspiration for you:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75799

The general consensus seemed to be it's not worth it for the effort.
I still love the idea Even the Alto conversion that a members currently doing looks like a solid little conversion. Powers not everything

I agree power isn't everything. Sounds like it would make a great conversion. I think off memory the 1.3L Micra was made with the same bore and stroke dimensions as the 1275cc Mini engine making it 1275cc.
Off memory as well I seem to remember someone telling me that there was a turbo Micra engined Mini around Adelaide. I recon they said it drag raced regulaly at Adelaide International raceway. This would have been 10 years ago.

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TOO MANY MINIS AND NOT ENOUGH TIME

Power isn't everything but don't underestimate the effort required even though this motor isn't "powerful". Unfortunately there is the same amount of work regardless of the power output of the motor. Power and complexity is not directly proportionate

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

@Josh:
I don't expect it to be a rocket ship, it's no 4EFTE, i'm under no disillusions.
If I was after amazing power, this wouldn't be the engine for it, no. If a CB70/80 becomes available, let me know. I'll happily go that route instead.

Depending on the dyno/engine condition/state of tune, people on the micra forums are getting 75-95hp at the flywheel on stock units.
MrFail is right, they are very strangled by intake and exhaust.

I don't want to start a debate on whether or not it's worth doing, but it seems inevitable.


@Meeni
I understand all that needs to be shoehorned in there. As I said, it fits, with no body mods. People have been doing it for years on TMF. Only body mods are a result of bad execution of the subframe.

Not sure if my car would require a booster, never left the factory with one. If the engineer says it needs one, then it will get one.
Happy to look elsewhere, if there is another option that fits without too much hacking about. Couldn't find much info about how the G13B fits into a clubby front, but I did hear their power band is quite high up..

Speaking of power bands, the CG13DE makes it's torque from 2500-8000, seems like a good power band for a daily to me. The micra's I have driven seem to pull quite well in any gear.

But i'm happy to be swayed to another motor.

Thanks for the encouragement.


@Sam
Yep, thanks for the link. I'm well familiar with that subframe.
BigChief seems to be the pioneer of this conversion (the guy who made that frame).
That is for a CG10 though, which is the 1L from the 80's with a smaller gearbox.


@M-JAY
That's correct, exact same bore and stroke; 1275cc


@JC
Cheers, good to hear from people who have done it before yet still keep an open mind about other options.

As I have said, if someone comes across a CB70/80 motor, i'll happily put it in instead.


TL:DR
I get that it's not going to be a rocket ship.
If you find a turbo 3 banger daihatsu motor, i'll grab it and use that instead.

_________________
You're so square
Baby I don't care

My mind is so open sh.t just keeps falling out.

Re: the daihatsu, there was a few posts about some on Ebay recently. Maybe give that some thought given availability of replacement parts?

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

Power is not everything (yet we talk about a drag racing turbo micra) however time/effort & money all add up to decide if the end result is really worth it.

From someone who has done a conversion and been involved in a lot of other conversions on here IMO it would not be worth the effort even completely dismissing the power output. My Ex GF in highschool used to drive a micra and it's not that great an engine and relatively old if you were going to go down the modern efficient route.

Talk to ben (ausminis4u) about what engines are readily available in japan. Anything is available if you look hard enough for it - including CB70's

A very basic break down of costs and estimation:

Engine Cost: $1000+?
Intake: $300
Exhaust: $500
AirFilter/Box: $100
Fuel Lines: $300
Fuel Pump: $300
EFI Tank: $300
Subframe: $1500
Brakes: $1500
Wiring/ECU: $1000
Gauges: $300
Engineering: $1000

= $8,100

And there are lots of other hidden costs that i havn't taken into account. What about insurance costs?

For me you could spend a lot less on an A-Series rebuild which you can tailor given the same bore-stroke with a nice camshaft and headwork to make similar power and be fuel efficient if that is the brief.

hell you could buy a whole late rover EFI for a little bit more and that's a whole car and they drive very nicely and make lots of torque from 1,100rpm.

Anyway it's your choice and if you want to do it go ahead, i'm not trying to stop you, rather give you advice from my experience. There are very few people who have actually completed a conversion (JC has a lot of experience here as well) and i'd be talking to those who have the experience rather than the general masses who will tell you to just do it because.

You have a lot of knowledge available here - if you keen i'd be going in a 4EFTE conversion, brad's CB70 conversion will be done soon, drive a EFI rover if you havn't already and a well built 1275 for economy. Why try and reinvent the wheel?

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Like I said Josh, i'm open to other options.

I've always been keen on the 4EFTE, but not so keen on the body chopping involved.
That's the only thing stopping me - Maybe I should just hack it up.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, just want to make that clear aswell.

Is that price breakdown similar to what your clubby cost? Without all the extra's like wheel changes and polishing?

Why did the subframe cost $1500? Did you pay someone to make yours, I am having trouble working out how it adds up to that much if no labour is involved.

That price list looks doable, 4EFTE is sounding better (yes yes, you win).

I don't want a ball tearer, I want a daily with some grunt - But not after an a-series. I want something different.



Was yours able to engineered with the 7.5" (or 7.9"?) brakes or was that an after engineering change?
Also, I can't find what year your clubby is?

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You're so square
Baby I don't care

Try not to interpret our advices against doing a conversion as negativity. It's a LONG road (anyone whose done it knows) with many a winding turn!

I'm about to buy a mini and i figure there are more cost and time effective methods to achieve a comparable outcome.

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

I don't think you're having a go but both JC and I want you to understand the complexities of a conversion - it's a LOT of blood sweat and tears.

Most converesions take around 3 Years to complete with many not been completed at all.

That cost i gave is a bit on the low side - you'd be looking closer to 10K for a basic engine in conversion.

Mine cost a lot more - as you have turbo, dump pipes, blow off valves, ECU, CDI ignition, coils, boost controller, water to air cooler, extra radiator, electric fan etc. Probably 10K just there.

I forgot driveshafts on that original list as well and also placing gear shifter in the car.

Subframe look at the cost of steel, welder/gas, sandblasting, powdercoating - actual cost would be lower but try to take all things into consideration.

You'll want to look at:
- New brake lines
- New master cylinder/rebuild existing
what about steering rack, ball joints etc will this be replaced?

I've got all new suspension/knuckles/rubber cones etc - everything new which adds up.

The new brakes were engineered after the original.
My car is 1978.

4EFTE can be made to fit without cutting the guards - look at 92's conversion in SA - anything is possible just depends on $$$ and effort as always.

I'm not trying to push you down the 4EFTE path - maybe 4EFE? cheaper and less complex and that's a great engine on it's own - easier to fit without all the turbo gear but again quite old - engines are readily available and cheap though i'd say better than a micra engine.

The UK guys didn't get access to a lot of the jap imports that we have so i wouldn't be using them as a reference the 4EFTE is quite rare over there, the micra is only popular cause they were built in the UK.

I'd be looking at anything out of the modern shopping trolleys that makes respectable power and comes in a manual.

Also even though it has been done before you will be spending lots of money being the guinea pig in australia.

Also i just had a thought - you could do a 4EFE and a 4EFTE would bolt straight in later if you or the next owner decided they wanted a bit more power.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484