my mini with 53 ATW is fun enough for me these days. suprises idiots in confomidores at the lights and as said prior it's more about the mini-ness of it than the out and out hp for me.

my series4 RX7 had 240 ATW on low tune (where i kept it - had easy potential of 300ATW) and that was too much in a road car for me, full coil overs properly set up and 2nd gear could lose your licence, 3rd gear and a damp road could put you backwards and onto the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic (ok only once!)

I would suggest it's nice to aim for a figure when building something, gives a goal and a purpose, but depending on the vehicle and your own needs it's going to be diffeerent for everybody.

for me in a mini 50-100 is great.

*puts flamesuit on*

I think i'm probably the only one on here that has a mini with power output in each of those brackets so what i am going to say is not just opinion but based on my real life experience.

Moke A-Series: 1152cc ~50HP ATW
Mini A-Series: 1275cc SPi ~60ATW
Mini 4EFTE: 1330cc Turbo
1. 12psi boost ~100-120HP
2. 15psi boost ~140-160HP
3. 18psi boost ~160-180HP
4. 22psi boost ~180-200HP



I think everyone in this thread is right - power and drivability is all dependant on how you will use the car, what is it's intended purpose? weekend warrior / commuter / track day weapon / drag strip ??

The video on youtube of BIGBAD does have a lot of flex but that comes down to the subframe design (which was modified after that point) - that video was taken in the early days of engine conversions and was still in it's infancy and it did have an immense amount of torque/power that came on instantly when it hit boost - with a name like BIGBAD what would you expect



The beauty of electronic boost controllers is that you can choose the power you want and a nice number to drive around on for me is 12psi - around 140-150HP - much above that and it isn't fun around corners anymore (for turbo cars also depends a lot on boost delivery - mine starts boost from 2k and is fairly linear as it's a small ish turbo)

One thing which i know from my experience is that 10" wheels can handle a lot more power than 13" wheels though i havn't tried 12's. They just feel nicer, there is more grip, less torque steer at the higher power outputs and it's more comfortable. Part of it is the unsprung weight - I lossed ~25Kg switching back to 10's.



Certainly not unpleasant, it's one of the nicer things i've done actually
As above the beauty of boost control is that you can choose your power and when you want it.

Options:
1. Normal Cruising lets choose ~140HP
2. Starts raining, drop it to ~120HP and drive off boost
3. Corners? 140HP
4. Corners with straights? 140HP with gear based boost building based on speed and gear choosen so it automatically varies based on your needs
5. pull up next to a *insert fast car of choice / ferrari, porsche, GTR, WRX, V8* select appropriate power for some fun.
6. drag strip up to max boost of course
7. track day as per point 4.

I have never been in a mini that is so flexible, drive it off boost below 3000rpm and it feels just like a rover, quiet, comfortable, fuel efficient, 5th gear up hills (on boost) but it's has a real jekyl and hyde personality if you want it to and that's what makes it special to me.

Yes you can spin the wheels in 3rd gear - it's very impressive but as above no one is making you do it, guess what - if you don't want wheel spin choose a little less boost in 3rd at that speed and add a bit more when you get to 4th (I needed it when I was at wakefield park chasing a skyline down the straight)

If you're not going to use big power in a safe environment of your choice then of course it's not needed and a waste but that wasn't what the OP asked. "how much power is usefull" and that is why everyone in this thread is right- it's how much power is useful to them - it's not a one size fits all proposition otherwise we'd all have 35-75HP engines...



Some people do drive their cars on the track / drag strip and giving it the beans in 1st through to top of second (legal limit onto fwy) is some of the best fun i've ever had in a mini. period.



I agree on your first point but don't agree on the second - you don't lose any of the fun you just gain a different form of fun - it still handles like a go-kart (in fact my car handles very well now, better than most but it does take a lot of development, time and work to get that result - it wasn't very good when i first built it and there are still improvements been made)



I actually do agree with you on that power range depending on the purpose but 75HP ATW is a nice number for an A-Series but don't discount more power unless you have tried it.



Where is the *like* button?

I still remember our little drive in brads 4EFTE when you screamed like a school girl like it was yesterday - the fit of joy/laughter still makes me happy to this day



It's been a few years since then Kev - I've spend a lot of time working on the suspension and driveline - different alignments / bushes / roll bars/ wheels/tires/ steering rack and have dialed out a lot of those characteristics.



To each their own Adam
I wish i could spin them in 4th
Yea but my 4L daily can't go around corners
And there is still nothing like a mini taking on and embarrassing much bigger and 'faster' cars.



Agreed.
There is also something called your right foot which controls the power - you don't have to keep you foot flat and the fun/challenge comes from controlling all that power.



Up to 120-130 things are relatively sane, 150 is easily managable with a well sorted suspension setup and much above that you start talking serious concentration and a well sorted setup.

/flamesuit

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

I wasn't looking for an answer as such, just different points of view.
To me this is what makes the mini community so special, everyone has a different opinion and are willing to discuss without bashing each other.

I guess as I'm in the concept stage for phase 2, I wanted to get a feel for other peoples experience with their own cars/ideals.
To clarify,
Phase 1: get a mint mini that were I to decide to do nothing to it would be a 100% pleasurable experience (thanks to dad that came easily)
Phase 2: insert fire breathing monster under bonnet, must be tractable, entirely unobvious with bonnet down, yet retain the A series that for all its faults remains the original heart of the car.
Phase 3: put Twiggy on a diet, she is to lose weight without losing her period look. So things like YES to titanium sub frames with coil overs, 10" alloy S rims or most probably Rose Petal alloys, but NO to things like stripping interior or fancy race seats and harnesses. Sigh yes, as a trainer for the last 24 years I could lose 10kg myself.

She will still look like a period Mini from the outside and the inside, but as I use to ride motor bikes (triumph tiger, gsxr 1100, Moto Guzzi 1100 Balabio, I never owned a ****** Vespa you can't prove it and if you try I know where you live, bloody death traps) I found a mini with decent power = more fun than a motor bike!


How many ponies for me? I'll be honest and admit I'm looking for around 150 at the wheels, and I'm more than willing to agree that it must be in a total balanced package and may take a fair time to evolve to that spec.

Either way I'd like to thank those responding as I see great value in your opinions and the reasons behind them.

Still a series + 150hp atw = $$$$$ + road drive able, no bonnet bulges or performance based asthetic mods = difficult I would think. But good luck! I was heading down this route at first an gave up when I saw the cost vs reliability factor, that said, cylinder head and engine technology has made those numbers achievable now

If you want to spin the wheels in 3rd gear just fit cheaper tyres.

I think the results from the Sydney Dyno Day make an interesting read.
When you looked at the owner, the car and what has been done it the engine. Coupled with their opinion on their own car and the satisfaction they get from it.
The magic 100BHP seems to be more a physiological target rather than a target based on experience and the opinion of others in the know.

_________________
WD40'll fix it!
If it don't, use a big hammer!

excellent post Josh - really good to read, thank you

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

100HP ATW is not real easy to get from a 5 port headed Mini. Without either a huffer or a hairdryer.

We had a bloke come up from Melbourne to our Sydney dyno day years ago, he has a $13K Link Automotive 1430 engine in it, 45 Weber + the works, and it made 82HP approx......

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

I'm thinking at aiming for 150 ish with a twinkly head or
100ish with a cross flow 7 port injected.

100hp at the wheels.
For a 5 port road engine.
Is EXCESSIVE.
This is 140hp at the flywheel - I can pretty much safely say that I highly doubt many roadies are putting out this much power - even some Historic/App J /"Nb/Nc" cars don't even make this much!



GOOD LUCK having a nice streetable 5 port ROAD engine.
If you have one, please, show me your secrets. And I'd like to drive it!

I agree Kev, willy. We have/had very similar engines at 127hp at the flywheel for mine. I think mine is incredibly flexible for what it is, but I drive mine on the track with WOT most of the time. It manages the tooling around in the pits OK in the same way most track cars do.

That flywheel hp probably translates to somewhere in the 80-85hp at the wheel mark if everything is nice and loose in the transmission based on what Kev's and GR's do on the MRC dyno (as well as your Melbourne bloke).

Any more than that and it becomes too temperamental to be a road car IMHO.

Have you seen the size of the cam lobes that the Nb/Nc front running cars have? Considering that they run them upwards of 8500rpm to get the power, this makes them very unfriendly on the street.

If you want big power from a road A-series, then turbo/supercharging is the only viable option to make it friendly enough to use.

cheers
michael

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the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates

This was the engine in my last mini, I never had a Dyno sheet, so you can make any figure up you want, it's still about (saw it at link as I think the drop gears had been toasted) it was tractable and damned fun. I'm willing to guess it was 100 at the wheels. It ran so well that I'm after this same experience again but through a different route, either 7port injected or twinky injected sc'd.


ENGINE
1275 +60 = (1330cc)
Lightened, wedged and balanced crank
Lightened and balanced flywheel and backing plate
Rods all lightened, polished and balanced
Cylinder Head - ported and polished, oversized valves, combustion chambers adjusted to suit supercharger
1.5 ratio full roller rockers
1.5mm steel head gasket fitted to reduce compression ratio
ARP big end and main bolts
Double row timing chain
AP Race Clutch Plate, grey pressure plate
Metro Turbo Gearbox
3.7 ratio Limited slip diff
Alloy rocker cover
HP Supercharger CAM shaft
AutoScrew Twin Screw Supercharger High Out Put Model
1 7/8th Cheater HIF44 SU Carburetor (looks like 1 ¾ but machined and flowed 1 7/8th K&N filter on custom filter manifold
Race Alloy Radiator Australian Made, larger water pump pulley & Craig Davies Thermo Fan
Finned supplementary water cooler
Electric fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator
13 row oil cooler
2.5” Custom High-Flow exhaust system - 2.5” Brown-Rig Extractors
Gemini starter motor
x 2 Lower engine steadies

Would love to know if the current owner has Dyno or modified it.



This is my current engine spec, and it feels nice and strong. But not near quick enough or enough torque for my liking.

1310 on mk1s block
12g940 head with unleaded seats and stems
Waggot brothers in austinville ported the head
1.5 roller tip rockers with non needle shaft bearings
Re 13 cam  
Line bored with big end caps, closed and honed
New Rings and +10 thou crank and big end Conrod bearings
Lightened fly wheel
Bg needles in the su's
electric fuel pump

Years ago, I had a race engine on the road, it was anything but fun. Wife couldn't drive it, rev the crap out of it so it wouldn't bog down, would never do that again.