What style of seat belts were in an early 850?

Body/car number is in the low 12000's & high 11000's, has single skin A panels.

There is what looks like provision for a high belt mount on the B pillar, would this be the case or were they only designed for lap belts?

They had none, standard. Optional up until 1965, yes they used a 3 point lap/sash belt.
I would NOT fit inertia reels, as the upper mount/B pillar is not strengthened as those from 1967? on were. See previous `discussions' here on this subject.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

They didnt have seatbelts unless dealer optioned. The seatbelts were three point usually with and old style aviation type clasp (that removed your large intentine in the event of an accident).

Google: Kangol seatbelt as they were one of the suppliers.

Do you think that button in the picture is covering a threaded insert?

Yes.
it was high and uncomfortable, in 1963-64? they lowered it a few inches.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

The reason why it's uncomfortable is the belt edge sits against your lower neck just on your shoulder.
With fixed belts it just becomes common to set them a bit looser so it's not tight against your skin, but a loose belt is unsafe for obvious reasons. With inertia reel belts the easiest solution is to buckle up normally then flip the belt over (top edge flips towards your chest and then down) so the top edge now becomes the bottom edge, the belt still works perfectly normal.
The only problem with the inertia belts (like Doc mentioned) is your taking a gamble in high speed crash the B pillar may deform/collapse due to the extra forces "pulley" system puts into the separate points.

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Respect mine and I'll respect yours.

I completely understand everyone's justification of this using the physics of it.
But in reality I think it all seems a little silly.
In reality if you hit an object with the ammount of force needed (even with added pulley strain) to fold in the b pillar. A seat belt is not going to help you. You would almost certainly dead from either your engine , or the other car/object crushing you.
The b pillars might not be exceptionally strong, but they are not that weak either.
Mini's have little to no crumple protection (by todays standards) so the thing that is going to absorb all that force is probably going to be you.

Sorry, I don't want to start a big off topic debate about this again, and I completely respect everyones personal opinion and don't want to offend anyone. But it always seems strange to me when people have this opinion about seatbelts.

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Tim
Dusk Blue
1964 850

I had an awful set of magnetic kangol flip buckles in my old 997. If you had to emergency stop, the braking would make the buckles flip forward under their own weight.

The early seatbelts weren't much chop...

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

I had them too....I got sick of having to explain to every passenger how they worked!

The belt has driven me crazy for years in my 850. Sure does rub on my neck. So if they weren't standard then I'd assume you don't have to fit any at all (silly as that is)? I've always been going to fit them in the back but never got round to it (problematic with having to fit a strengthening mount under the parcel shelf). Also destroys the originality as well. Not that the bloke cared before me. He cut out 6 X 9 speaker holes with tin snips! How did I find this out? First time I stuck my head in the boot to get something out I came very close to taking half my scalp off! I won't write what I said at the time!!

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71 Clubman GT
63 Morris 850
66 Mk 1 Cooper S

"I completely understand everyone's justification of this using the physics of it.
But in reality I think it all seems a little silly. .."

I would careful making comments without foundation... Actually the Mini is a very tough little beast - and was designed with a certain degree of passive safety in built. ... unusual for its time.

I have seen a couple of photos of Mini that have suffered massive front end damage. (I think Doc posted one of his some time past). In one, the lamp post intruded so far into the front end that it damaged the scuttle panel (where the windscreen wipers mount). While the occupants were a little tatty, they lived.

The Mini was designed to ride up over the engine and in the case noted you can see the engine sitting pretty much under where the passengers feet would go. The basic passenger cell is still intact. The owner does not want to share the phots.

I have van in the back yard that was hit square in the passenger door by a Dunnydore that ran a red light. The Mini was punted about 30 metres. The passenger seat (unoccupied) hasn't moved and the driver escaped with facial cuts as the passenger window shot gunned across the car. The impact was absorbed by the A pillar/dash structure.

I would not really be worried about the upper mount - although I wouldn't do it to my car without professional advice.... I would be more concerned about getting the inertial roller mounted rigidly at the correct angle...

Having rolled my own '64 way back when I was converted early - car came with belts. Highly amusing to note that seat belts were severely frowned upon by girlfriend's parents back in the 60s. The driver was obviuosly a hoon not to be trusted with precious daughter...

Cheers, Ian

Ian,
Here's the 850 I was riding shotgun in, back in Dec 1965.
The tree went straight through the radiator and kept going. A good 12" or more into the roofline. (It missed the crank, so I put this bored & stroked 997 motor into MY 850 when I could walk unassisted, 10 months later).
I was sitting in that front seat, my left leg got badly smashed. No belts were in the car.
Good thing we hit the gumtree about 1M off the ground and it was a small one, otherwise I would NOT be here.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

That is a very scary photo doc. Every time i see it it scares me a bit.

Getting back to juniors question about which seatbelts he should use. Does anyone have any evidence of the b pillar folding in from using retractable seat belts in early cars?
If anyone does, i am more than happy to admit i am wrong and that you shouldnt use them.

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Tim
Dusk Blue
1964 850

Early aftermarket/dealer fitting for lap sash belts required holes to be drilled in the B pillar. A fitting kit was supplied with the belts. The pic shows the part used in the B pillar.
[/URL]

Seeing as how Kev showed us his, I have decided to show mine

This was a life changing crash for me (almost a life-taking crash). I flinch every time I see it, and for a long time did not want to see it plastered all over the internet. I STILL DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT (please respect the copyright).

The background to the crash is simple, I was riding motorbikes and the Mini was a rain-proof (mostly) way of socialising with members of the opp sex who were bike-averse. It was a bodged-up unit disposed of by a large car sales company through a couple of stooges. I was gradually correcting all the faults (eg shim brass sleeved wheel cylinders) and had a rack on order.

The rack failed and Mick collected the mother of all telegraph poles.

It is a great testament to the tough construction of the Mini that I survived.

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"Show me the Mini!"