always balance you engines ... i pay around $500 to get mine done and it gives me at the very least piece of mind .. especially when you see how far out some of the components can be ... like conrods that some one balanced yeah they all weighed the same amount but were up to 5 grams out end for end ...

Same goes for a central oil pick up ... one goes into every gearbox i do ... sh#t for $100 or less its very cheap insurance ( and less than the gaskets and time to pull the thing down )



Beanie

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I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

Sorry Matt, I completely disagree. Explain to me how an item that is factory balanced can become unbalanced. Absolutely the crank must be crack tested, but the factory balance was fine for a road car and unless it has too great a runout and is bent then how can it lose its balance?? It cant... The rods were factory balanced each weighted and balanced end for end, so unless you are using mismatched parts from different engines there should be no need to balance them at all, and as with all rebuilds surely the owner has the responsibility for inspecting each part. The same goes for the pulley. Unless the rubber dampener is coming apart how can it now be out of balance. Pistons these days such as hypatecs are well enough balanced from new. For a road car, I cannot see the benefit of balancing these items. If the engine is going to be altered in any way by machining for lightening purposes, absolutely these items would need to be balanced but that goes without saying. Would it hurt to do so, no, but is it essential to balance what is otherwise a standard engine let the builder make up his own mind. Its easy to spend someone elses money but for many it is a matter of priority as to where their funds go.

Go back and read the original post. This is a complete and standard bore engine......How is this any different to finding a complete low mileage engine 20 years ago? If the engines were good enough then not to balance a few years ago what makes it any different if this engine has been sitting in a shed for 30 years?

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

Greg, it`s cool, you can disagree all you like,,,suffice to say--> i wouldn`t try to argue about backbones with you bro



However,,, it really is pretty wild what comes back from the balancer "sometimes"
& i won`t be saying not to bother balancing an engine to anyone anymore.

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

I would hope not. With 9 years tertiary qualifications in the area your chance of winning that argument would be pretty slim, but we aren't talking about anatomy are we.

We all know you build engines but what are your qualifications in this field Matt that would give you the right to discredit what I am saying?

Unless somebody suitably qualified can prove me wrong in saying that the factory balance is unsuitable for a road car, my opinion remains the same.

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

No disrespect, but Are you serious?

How many years has Matt been doing this for?
Experience counts for a lot more than 'qualifications' any day.

I appreciate that you were required to study for 9 years, and respect that immensely. However Matt's 30+ years of working specifically with the one make of engine certainly puts him in a position of expertise.

As for 'factory balance', with forty year old engines, how do you know who has touched the engine before you and what they have done. I would certainly always ask to have my engine balanced.

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Ryan Filippi
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au

I'd agree with Greg with, for a road car with a factory low mileage engine there is no specific reason to balance rather than peace of mind and happier revs. However how many low mileage engines are left after 50 years, they all came out of functioning cars for a reason, rust through neglect, prangs or some terminal failure (not including replacement engines)

Or they just need a rebuild after all these years. Yes why wouldn't you get it balanced, but then why would you?

If you can verify the age, health and originality of an engine and have no speed racer dreams of revving it past the factory redline for sustained periods then why bother? What's a few thousandths in ovality from oil starvation or that main cap that's been working away allowing the crank to whip and bend?

The difference is being on the side of the road or getting home safe and dry.

But again, if you know the engine and have verified it's health over the last half century (or 50,000 miles, whatever comes first) then maybe you don't need to balance it. How many of us can say that (remembering the higher cyilnder pressure incurred by supercharging or turbo charging and that sprint to get up to speed on the freeway)

There probably isn't much in the way of qualitative information on rebuilding engines sans balancing, but I respect that while you have it apart its a very good idea to check that everything is in spec.

And I have been rebuilding minis for 25 years. No disrespect to Matt either we have been friends for a long time, but Matt's opinion is simply that, an opinion. No different to mine or anyone else

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

That's fair enough, opinions are just that. I tend to listen to the opinions of those with most experience and who are held in high regard.

I've seen your cars over the years, and respect your work, but I believe Matt trumps you on experience.

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Ryan Filippi
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au

No stress, I am a big fan of both expertise and experience for example....

"All sorts of wonderful things are claimed of balancing and engine, mostly by people who have balancing machines and can sell you the service. one of the most popular claims is that it will increase the rpm limit of your engine by about 500rpm. This is a gross exaggeration. In all probability it will increase the failure rpm of your engine by about 5 to 10 rpm and possibly at most, 50 if it happens to cure some particularly bothersome vibration frequency...............If you are building an engine on a budget, its sometimes difficult to decide where to spend your money and except for achieving added smoothness, money spent on balancing doesn't actually improve performance......A simple rule is that if you are on a very tight budget, don't disturb the factory balance.

David Vizard.

Is that enough respect?

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

Certainly lots of respect for Vizard, but as he said "factory balance"
How many engines these days have factory balance? How can you be sure that what you have is in fact factory?

My first engine (built by a reputable mini engine builder) destroyed it self. The second engine builder was horrified by how out of whack the thing was and in his opinion the motor destroyed itself. This, in his opinion could of been avoided by balancing. Both were builders with years of experience.

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Ryan Filippi
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au

And that is my point. Factory balance. How can you be sure your eBay engine is as it left the factory? New set of conrods? Or a new crank.

Sure it isn't worth bothering the factory balance, if that's what it is. There's a lot of time between the most recent a-series and 2013.

Maybe a block with caps isn't enough? Perhaps an original crank and rods is equally important, because of you can't afford balancing you want to make sure it's as it left the factory.

Balancing won't turn it into a race car bit it's worth checking unless you're on a shoestring and have confidence no one has buggered with it in the last few decades. Again though, it's not the holy grail but its a useful bit of insurance especially when you have two less caps than a modern engine.

Ok my 2 bits worth (and I rebuilt my first A series in 1966)-
Fast roady engines-
Factory crank balance was pretty good, ditto the conrods if they were a set. And new replacement pistons are pretty good too.
But these days we often build a motor from various bits, eg my stroker I used 3 rods from Lillee's broken 1100S motor and 1 from GR. I balanced them as a set, (1 rod was 4g light so I made the rest the same).
But if you wedge a crank it needs the balance checked, because a lot of metal has been machined off, however the last one I had checked was perfect.

IMO the most important part to balance is the cast iron flywheel and backplate. Stock is fine but if either has been lightened, the balance will probably be out, and it has the most potential for vibes or engine damage if left out of balance.

For race motors you would balance the lot. Silly not to.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Factory balancing is fine if you have all the factory gear and put it back together in the same order, conrods and all. Also fine if you plan to run factory power output with factory extractors and factory SU and intake.

Point is, many of us aren't rebuilding them at factory specs. Balancing takes only a few minutes to check in some cases. Well worth doing IMO.

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Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

It doesn't matter if it has a new set of conrods, provided it is a matched set. I think it is about time people started questioning what they read on here. Don't take my word for it or anyone else's for that matter. Pick up a book and learn for yourselves guys. Just bear in mind not everyone is right all the time. Keep an open mind. Its easy to blindly follow somebody else, it takes more effort to question what's being said.

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

agreed.

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car