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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:05 am 
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marty, use what you've bought and any that you use regularly with either go blunt / snap etc. When that happens replace those with sutton / P&N etc as those are the ones that you use regularly. If you are just a hobbiest you probably don't want the outlay of a very expensive tap and die set for something you'll only use occasionally.

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:19 am 
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Just running threads is probably not a big deal but cutting threads is a different ball game.


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:25 am 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
A little tube of this stuff is essential with cutting threads. It lubricates the cutting face and makes stops the edge biting in to hard leading to a break.

Keep it next to your tap and die kit. You can get it from Supercheap and the like is a small toothpaste like size.
Often the pressure is to go in dry, but you often end up biting the pillow instead....

I get the P&N/Sutton thing, I've snapped scores of lesser taps, but on a quiet Sunday afternoon, and you need the car for the morrow, a shitty black supercrap tap will get you out of a nasty bind! But yeah, its good after a number of years to be able to raid the kit, and there's nothing but good quality HSS taps and dies...


Thread cutting is a way interesting trade skill in my opinion, it was one of the first thing I had to learn as a fundamental in the steel works, and there's so many small tricks to it. And all the different threads in the world to learn and where to expect them! BSW, BA, UNC, UNF, NPT, NPTF, BSP, BSPT, BSPF, ISO (coarse, fine) I get a real satisfaction from a nicely hand cut thread. I've got a Snapon thread tap drill size guide here which always guilts me out because I don't have the correct 11/24ths or 36/45ths size drill bit :P ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Mick wrote:
Thread cutting is a way interesting trade skill in my opinion, it was one of the first thing I had to learn as a fundamental in the steel works, ........ I get a real satisfaction from a nicely hand cut thread....

Cutting a long thread real nice and neat on a length of rod is quite a challenge. The first inch or so is nothing but after that the thread can get wonky.
I found that if I opened the die up a bit and did a cut
and then came back for a second bite with the die closed a bit, I could get straight cuts.
Don't know if this the correct way but it was only way I could get a straight cut 200mil long on 12mm rod.
And it certainly heated up the Sutton die even with plenty of care and cutting juice.


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
Yeah, I would put a bias on the lever without even knowing it. It would dig the die into one side or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:32 pm 
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Mick wrote:
A little tube of this stuff ...


What stuff? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Oops, this stuff.

Also available in a toothpaste tube, which is better for a toolbox.

http://www.crcindustries.com.au/product ... d=trefolex

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Mick wrote:
Oops, this stuff.

Also available in a toothpaste tube, which is better for a toolbox.

http://www.crcindustries.com.au/product ... d=trefolex


Yeah it's good stuff, I used to use it, back when I had a job.
These days my choice of cutting fluids is WD40, or 20W/50, or else 90/140 gear oilz. Works for me...

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:49 pm 
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drmini in aust wrote:
Mick wrote:
Oops, this stuff.

Also available in a toothpaste tube, which is better for a toolbox.

http://www.crcindustries.com.au/product ... d=trefolex


Yeah it's good stuff, I used to use it, back when I had a job.
These days my choice of cutting fluids is WD40, or 20W/50, or else 90/140 gear oilz. Works for me...


WD40 is okay, but any Motor/gear/machine will have too high a shear strength the do anything but hinder cutting, it will actually try to stop the edge engaging with the steel. Honestly using nothing is better than using motor oil. Bacon fat is actually quite good if you can be bothered saving the leftovers from your breakfast.

I use Trefolex, I like that it's thick, like a grease. Rocol oil and RTD spray are also quite good. But any cutting lube will work

Actually, if your only cleaning threads out, then the lube probably doesn't matter much. Maybe WD40 would be best because it cleans fairly well


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:58 pm 
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I beg to differ, try it before you knock it.
I've only been a machinist for 50 years... any oilz is better than NO oilz!
I have screwcut hi tensile steel threads on the lathe with motor oil, it works fine. No oil, and you tear the threads up.

[edit] for clarity

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Last edited by drmini in aust on Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Motor oil works. Also if you're tapping aluminium I would recommend kero or metho. They work well on aluminium. Or you can buy trefolex, rocol, tap magic, Neat oil or even use straight soluble cutting fluid without diluting it.. all of these will work on steel or ally... whatever you do, don't make a habit of using them dry, it will wear them out in no time :)

BACON FAT!! That's OLD SCHOOL AS! :lol: Still works well though,,, although kind of gross hhaaha

If all you are doing is cleaning old threads, your carbon steel taps will be fine, but listen to them :) if they start saying "STOP" then stop, or back off 1/2 a turn and try again gently. They're more brittle than the HSS taps so they're less forgiving if you're heavy handed.

Like 1018 said, if you break any or wear any out replace them with good ones, but there is nothing wrong with what you have if you're only using them once a year. I would like to add FEW and Dormer to that list, lately I've found that the Suttons ones are going through a weird phase of being a bit brittle.

You'll know they're worn when they start getting hard to use. Stop using them when they get to this stage because it is easy to force them and break them.

If you're tapping new holes, make sure you drill the right size hole. If its too tight it will bottom out the root of the thread on the tap and load it up making it way more likely to snap. There are hole tapping charts everywhere, I can't remember the drill sizes for the imperial stuff because I rarely use it at work, but the rule for working out metric drill size is:

Major diameter - Thread Pitch = Drill size.

So if for example it is an M6, the pitch is 1mm.... so its an easy one, Its just:

M6 - 1 = 5mm drill...

M8 is 1.25mm pitch so its M8-1.25=6.75 (just use a 6.8 )

The formula for working out imperial threads is a bit of a turd which is why I never committed it to memory :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Minimadmarty wrote:
Based on advise I made this purchase today :D


Made by Kincrome its a 24 pieces set I guess it's a good start! Also brought myself some big arse spanners 8)


I have a similar set of Kincrome - and think they are great - only really using for cleaning up threads etc ..
.. but wonder what I ever did without them....


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:12 am 
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MINImal effort wrote:
Minimadmarty wrote:
Based on advise I made this purchase today :D

Made by Kincrome its a 24 pieces set I guess it's a good start!


I have a similar set of Kincrome - and think they are great - only really using for cleaning up threads etc ..
.. but wonder what I ever did without them....



Cheers, I'm only going to be using them to clean up threads at this stage. If I become game enough to cut new thread I might just invest in something a little more heavy duty. So far so good :D


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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:00 am 
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Anyone ever fixed a knuckle joint only to notice they damaged the thread on the nut on removal when breaking the ball joint? Another Sunday afternoon ball breaker fixed simply by a seven dollar tap...

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 Post subject: Re: Tap & Die Set
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:09 am 
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MINImal effort wrote:

I have a similar set of Kincrome - and think they are great - only really using for cleaning up threads etc ..
.. but wonder what I ever did without them....


which 'KINCROME' ? China, Japan, Taiwan, Spain, Italy, United States or Australia :?: :)

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