why risk it

_________________
PrOuDlY aSkInG qUeStIoNs FoR uR aMuEsMeNt

I attempted to buy a Fuel Miser DL-250 (Dellorto DHLA) carby repair kit this week. Autobarn said is NLA, whether they've gone AWOL and the same is true for the SU kits I don't know.
I had a similar problem to Morris with an HS6 on my 1412, One day I filled up with supposedly Vortex 98, the car ran like a dog from the servo forecourt and I barely got home. Maybe the Vortex 98 wasn't...
anyway, I then binned the Fuel Miser jet and hose and fitted a genuine one. Not tried since though, as I put the reliable carby (45 Dellorto) back on.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

I was reading a technical magazine we get at work a while back and it had an article on ethanol fuel. Possibly the automotive engineer, or another one i can't recall the name of.

Basically to sum it up, you run the risk of; the rubber parts going bad (depending on the rubber), having to adjust air/fuel ratio unless you run efi that is able to adjust and perhaps the most deciding factor - water.

In regards to how the fuel absorbs water out of the atmosphere, this is a concern if you don't use the fuel quickly. If you use the car every day it would not be a concern at all. But however, if the car was to say sit in a garage for a month before using half a tank of fuel then going away for another month, that is where the problem lies. The fuel with absorb water from the atmosphere, but then it will settle and separate, then absorb water again. In the end you are left with lots of water in your tank, which will give grief.

So basically, if your fuel system can handle the ethanol and it's tuned right and you drive it frequently then it's supposed to be fine.

Ehtanol, or as I call it "vegetarian fuel", will affect "old" components and can 'accellerate' corosion in parts. It won't happen over night but will lead to premature failures.

I accidently put it in my 74 model bike and the hoses started to leak.
Just a side note here I just got an email from work saying Shell will be phasing out E10 in QLD you will only be able to get 95 and the super

Be careful, lots of rubbery things in an A series!

_________________
Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

For the extra $2 or so every time you fill up - why would you bother..

_________________
You're so square
Baby I don't care

I have been reading a few aticles about this subject and the jist seems to be it's not the best in carburettored cars, EFI is ok , something to do with moisture absorbtion in unsealed systems.

Hate to revive a dead thread, but Just been reading up on the E10, but I found this Vid. at 21ish minutes he talks about the ethanol briefly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtBHJVhARPI

_________________
Nick

http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86675

It's not just ethanol that degrades rubber.
Petrol is not pure octane - it is a blend and over the years has contained benzene, toluene and a lot of other things far nastier than alcohol.

Modern fuel hose is synthetic & is designed to resist these solvents, but it will still age.
I buy fuel hose by the roll, as that is the first thing I replace on any old car.
At least with the mini's low pressure system the chances of a catestrophic fire is low.
Look up pics of old 928 Porches with their extra high pressure mechanical fuel injection when a hose fails.

_________________
Too many cars, and too little time.

Alcohol in fuel is pretty much a political issue and nothing else...

I suppose its possible that you may have some components in your engine that degrade with alcohol but most of it will have been changed out long ago.

The good news about alcohol is that it has a much higher octane rating .. which doesn't help much when it just allows "them" to add it to c$%ier fuel so keeping the octane rating the same as non alcohol fuel. The bad news is that it doesn't not contain the same energy as an equivalent amount of "petrol". Old Indy cars used to churn out massive HP from high compression turbo engines on pure alcohol ..at something less than 2 MPG...

So you need more of it to travel the same distance. Which is why its cheaper... but unfortunately not cheap enough to give you the same KM/$ as non alcohol fuel.

The old furphy about water absorption is probably actually an alcohol +. Water doesn't get "sucked" into your fuel. Atmospheric gasses get sucked into the tank to replace the departing fuel. The associated water vapour then condenses on the tank wall and ends up at the bottom of the tank (fuel floats on top of it). Get enough and you engine starts throwing wobblies because ICEs don't run on water....

Old stale fuel at the servo can be a prime source of water as it condenses in their tanks just like yours. The pump then delivers neat little water droplets into your tank. Way back when it was common practice in the country (and areas where servos had slower turn over) to stick in half a bottle of metho (ethyl alcohol+ some nasties to make it less drinkable) to absorb the water (water mixes with the alcohol and petrol) so it could pass through the engine without too much hassle. So if you don't use your Mini much then the odd tank of alcohol fuel may be doing it a favour...

In the US my old Volvo would run quite happily on the cheaper/higher octane "gasahol" during summer. However, in winter it demanded I shell out more $$ for the similarly octane rated non alcohol fuel...

Cheers, Ian

Below is the official Australian site for what can/can't use E5/E10.
My 95 civic can't for example.
http://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can- ... nd-petrol-
My understanding is that new cars that can us E10 have all aluminium in contact with fuel anodised with a special coating to prevent corrosion caused by the fuel. E10 will over time affect many types of rubber (and derivatives) over time and therefore E10 compatible materials must be used.

I won't be using E anything in my mini !

_________________
Find a job you love and you will never have to go to work !

The solvent effects of alcohol in ethanol used to react with older fuel hoses. Literally washing out the natural oils and making them brittle. Modern lines we are told are better for this, but without a certificate from the supplier, then you can't be sure.


On the ethanol in our fuel, well beer, rum and all kinds of other alcohols are in aluminum too...which is food for thought (Ha!). There's no shortage of alloy engines out there which will do hundreds of thousands of kilometers without eroding away. Something else may be going on however. Everything I can find seems to be conjecture and gossip so far.

_________________
SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

20 years ago I started adding metho to my fuel during summer. A5% blend and it did well.

1 It does absorb water and especially clears the water out of the fuel filter
2 cleans some crud out of the tank as water is extracted from the emulsion the crud drops or is run through the system.
3 Runs cooler
4 while the knock rating for alc is higher the specific energy is lower then petroleum so there is a slight power loss.


For those changing to high octain these petrol have heaps of detergents and really do clean the engines. That clean passes really lumpy crud through your engine compared to alc in fuel so chill boys.

Alchohol also has oxygen in the molecule so it carries a power added with it (not enough to burn without additional oxygen though)

Iirc the difference between ethanol and petrol is about 40% less energy. So to get the same amount of btu or heat you need to use 40% more ethanol (if you were running straight ethanol vs straight petrol)

I have heard it is particularly bad for brass components (like needles in an su carb) but that may be a wives tale. It is more hygroscopic than petrol so don't use it in a weekend toy, better for something that gets used regularly, or keep the tank filled right up to expose less of the ethanol to the atmosphere.

It is bad for natural rubber but if you keep this in mind when you make the change its easy to buy appropriate seals and fuel line.

It runs cooler with a higher octane so you can tune the engine harder, more advance and more compression, this will help offset the drop in heat.

Or run more boost