It used to be a Kent 544 cam. Tappet noise, constantly changing valve clearances, then I noticed abnormal stretch in the timing chain, then eventually all the bits of metal found their way into the gearbox & it started crunching into 4th. Needless to say, I've just had to rebuild the box, now moving on to the motor.

Thanks for the info...having just built an engine & checking all the followers were spinning (one wasn't which lead to a partial stripdown - one advantage of a small-bore!) I was curious to what drew your attention to the issue. I will be sure to note any valve clearance changes...

cheers,

Jacob

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'72 Clubman Van - 1022cc, 295 head, 731 cam - Daily Driver
'69 Morris 1100 S - Dinged by a bus, in shed under repair
'64 Morris 1100 - Early 1100, long term project

Just so everyone knows the new ACL Australian Consumer Laws make the consumers reasonable expectation trump the warranty or provisional statements of a business. This started in 2012 and all consumers should wield it like a very big stick.

So if you buy replacement followers to the originals then it's reasonable they will be profile ground not flat ground unless stated. If your cam chews out and the engine needs a rebuild then the reasonable costs to do that are on the follower supplier. If you doubt this then you haven't read the ACL that replaced much of the TPA. The big chain retailer I'm in has had their legal teams banging this down our throats. I saw a 2" weld that had failed and any of us would spent the week end removing the part, getting a replacement from the supplied and reinstalling it, in this case the client simply called ACCC and the supplier went from a $47 part to a $3400 fix (it wasn't a car).

Time we all focused on weeding out the shonksters

Besser, good info.....Hard to prove what went first, or if followers weren't rotating etc.... not disputing your consumer law, just thinking i an engine with squillions of reciprocating, twirling, spinning, etc parts many a part company would play hard ball.

Most of us buy our parts direct from OS due to the cost saving. No jurisdiction for Aus Consumer laws. Trying to prove beyond a balance of probabilities that the part in question is the cause of failure would invariably cost more than the hope of financial retribution. In other words not worth the risk. Someone earlier said you can't trust anything coming out of a box as being correct and thats absolutely the truth. Even new parts should be disassembled and checked. How clean do you think the muppets hands or the workshop in India were when he/they assembled your new rocker gear. Believe me......not very.

G.

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

Good point Greg. Even if you could prove durisdiction then the admission that the engine sat for 'many years' before being started would mean the thin lifter bore lube or the break in lube on lobes may be gone at startup. Also the cam appears to be an undercut second hand unit and could have been soft and contributed to premature failure. Also the engine builder would be the one to ensure the two components were compatible, lobe taper, face radius hardnesses, nose pressures etc. I doubt ACCC or Fair Trading would bat an eyelid.
The Recent ACL changes brought bought concerns in the building game.
The ACL subject is interesting though as most people have always accepted that race engines have no warranty because of the nature of their use. I wonder what would come of an ACL claim. I have thought maybe the variables of 'over revved' 'incorrect warmup' etc would stand up?
I do know that anyone importing parts to resell is deemed to hold the responsibility as if they are the manufacturer.
Don't jump to the conclusion the follower was to blame unless you do the diagnosis , or better still check the components as does GR.

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The formula for the length of a piece of string is simple: Twice as long as from one end to the centre!

My experience with ACCC is that they appear to be largely a toothless tiger...they will mediate (IF both parties agree of course) and they can bring the "full force of the consumer law to bear" (IF you get a court order! at great expense)

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"Show me the Mini!"

The person "fitting" the part should be checking it`s correct "Before" fitting, or "During" fitting...
hence why i keep belting on about inexperienced people building their own engines may well need to re-think what they`re doing & grab some professional help before building an engine or a gearbox on their own..

It`s all good crying about it after the damage is done,,, but far better to avoid it in the first place

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

So Matt...by professional help...do you mean counselling? or some one who gets paid to put A Series together?

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"Show me the Mini!"

HI All
After gathering all our information, photos video's, and letter writing it was sent to the cam follower manufacture of our mini and other bucket type cam followers,only to receive an answer back saying they do not have any problems with their followers and according to them they do not have any returns with faults, totally disregarding what we had have them sent,
They even sent back a video of them testing one by running a dial indicator across the face of one of their followers, showing that it was correct, also noting that they sell 150000 MINI followers a year and the volume is going up each year.

So I don't know what the answer is when they just turn a blind eye to the problem and keep selling rubbish to us,all I can say is if you buy new cam followers for your motor just have them ground to be sure to be sure.
Any body that buys a cam from me I will grind their follower for nothing just for my piece of mind.
Graham Russell

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"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"

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Have a Nice Day.
If already having a nice day please disregard.

850man
I for one do not heat treat cams or phosphate coat them after grinding and for good reason steel cams do not need it, un like cast cams which need to be done which is usually done by Parkerising this process actually eats away the steel leaving the graphite sitting higher up than the steel, which creates a slippery surface for the follower to run on until it gets oil to it an allows the follower and cam to bed into each other.
I also have hardener testers to measure the flanks of the cams and hardness of followers, I only know of one other in Australia that has the equipment to do this.
Also have you ever seen what happens to a mini cam after they have been ground and you heat treat them? I have and when you put them back in the grinder clock up on number one the rest of the lobes are not always where they should be,that is after you straighten them as they come out like a banana.
One thing that coatings on cams does is hide all the chatter marks on the lobes when they are not ground correctly ground.
But all this has nothing to with the fact that CAM FOLLOWER ARE NOT BEING MADE CORRECTLY and that's what we are trying to correct.
Graham Russell

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"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"

Thanks for fighting the good fight GR...

Question: so should everyone start save followers to build up a stock of original old stock?

I am thinking about all the blocks that (for example) may have put a foot out of bed and were scrapped as beyond economic repair...including camshafts and followers etc

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"Show me the Mini!"

Good lord that looks terrible!

I have to say, my personal experiences with Kent Cams have been less than fantastic as well. I don't like to say it because they have such a good reputation, I've noticed the same sorts of things. A cam I had a few years ago was hardened but not core refined, and during grinding you could see where the hard layer was cracking off the core. Also had issues with lobes being out by miles.

Just touching quickly on comments about heat treating camshafts, it is a NIGHTMARE trying to find anyone that knows how to quench harden thin shafts without bending them. It doesn't surprise me at all to hear stories of them coming back bent or twisted.

Problems occur when the shaft is just dropped in water or oil. One side quenches before the other and bends it up. You need to swirl the water or oil and get a whirl pool happening, then stick the shaft in the centre and allow the vortex to collapse on the shaft instantly quenching it from all sides at the same time. Yes it will still move a bit, but not nearly as badly as it would other wise. Next part is making sure its actually tempered properly so that the hard outside layer bonds to the soft core properly (the part I've seen ****ed up on kent cams in the past). Cast iron shafts are a bit different because the lobes and journals are chilled during casting.

I know that Tighe Cams heat treat their cams, as did Wade, as do Clive. Its not uncommon practice, and it does benefit wear.

Where I'm working at the moment, we hardness test Camshafts, Crank Shafts, Gudgeon Pins, rocker shafts and other parts before assembly. And I know that Jim Donahue has a hardness tester and checks his parts too (as well as a Cam Doctor), as does even Windsor Engines (though they send theirs out for hardness testing, I don't think they do theirs in house), as did wade and Tighe test theirs too. Any quality, performance engine shop will do it, it's cheap assurance that parts aren't going to fail on you (especially when you're dealing with Diesels that are worth more than most houses in Sydney ).

Always interesting to see how these parts are wearing after a few hours of use. And good points raised by GR about having even brand new followers checked and corrected as needed.


.

I was wondering the same thing. Would we be better off refacing old followers rather than buy new ones?

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1963 Morris 850 Smoke Grey
1963 Morris 850 Shadow Blue
1965 Morris Mini Smooth Van
1966 Morris Mini Van
1969 Morris Mini Deluxe Resto
5/72 Clubman Gt