Mini body panels were pressed locally from about March or April 1964, which coincided with the release of the Mini Van, so late 850s possibly some 997cc Coopers and all 998cc Coopers would have locally-pressed body panels. The two holes were drilled into the gutters from very early on in production here. These holes were drilled after the body panels had been welded together, so the gutters had no holes when sent from UK. The very early cars did have the seats with the little feet, but the upholstery was locally made. Tyres, batteries and rubber floor mats were locally made and the list of locally made parts progressively increased over time.

The ID plate you showed in your first post has the CKD chassis number (132215) followed by the Australian car number (19043). The two numbers stamped into the body show that the operator made a mistake - the 19051 number has no bearing on the car. These sorts of mistakes were not particularly common, but I have plenty of evidence of them from time to time.

If you contact Heritage Motor Centre at Gaydon in the UK http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/buy-a-heritage-certificate/, they should be able to provide you with a Heritage Certificate (for a cost) to give an approx date that the CKD pack was shipped.

_________________
Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

I have lots of photos of 850s and Coopers showing the second number, the top one being hidden until the ID plate is removed.
It is always a very close number and it is always the different font.
I think you will find that what I said earlier may be correct.
Some clearly show the top number is painted and the lower one stamped after it is painted.

So it looks like the first number may have been done in the UK or as they arrive in Australia.
The ID plate is then fitted over the top with the new number which is then stamped into the body.
The first number is a better quality in that the body is not pushed in when the stamping is done.
The second number is more amateurish as the body is pushed in around it. They just hit the stamps with no support from the rear, once the car is completed.
I will chase up the certificate as per Watto's suggestion. Not sure what this will prove other than it being a genuine CKD number and an import date.
I will now keep both numbers during the repair process. (I had thought one may have been dodgy).
Thanks for all the comments.

I suppose the first number could have been the body build number, applied in the same way Australian manufactured cars, put together in the main Body Shop, had a body number stamped prior to the car being painted. In that case, body numbers started at 001, while car (or chassis) numbers of completed cars started at 501. While the difference between the two should always be around 500, this varies considerably depending on if the car went through the paint shop twice (for duotone cars) or if it was taken from the line for any reason, like rectification of on-line problems.
That applies to cars built from Aussie pressed panels.
With CKD cars, these were assembled and painted in the CKD building (known as CAB2 from 1958). If the body numbers started at the same number as the car numbers, 501, then this would make sense. The fact that there is a slight difference in the numbers could again be due to any special treatment off-line. While roofs were not painted contrasting colours on any of the 850s (at the factory) as far as we know, Coopers certainly were, so the facility existed. However, special metallic trim options were available and this may have been enough to throw the sequence out. That's only conjecture, but it makes sense.
Either way, that first number probably has no bearing on the UK number and would not have been added in the UK. It is far more likely it was stamped into the body after assembly but before painting, judging by the comments from other people with similar numbers.

_________________
Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

I have something in a BMC book about CKD vehicles starting at 0 and fully assembled vehicles starting at 501.

terminated

3449?

That's a very low figure (name removed by request). Local pressings didn't begin until 1964, so that's three years' assembly at a little over 1,000 cars per year?

Where has this info come from?

As always, I am happy to bow to any proof that corrects or substantiates any published figures or "facts".

_________________
Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

Terminated

As a journalist my profession is the dissemination of information. To say "I have the proof. I don't like sharing all the information" is pointless. If the proof exists show it and let everybody see it - otherwise it isn't proof at all but more hearsay evidence or just someone's opinion.

As I always say, I am prepared to modify or correct what I write and what I believe when someone is able to convince me of the facts, either through proof or strong argument.

Obviously some information (that you have eluded to, and I'm sure people will now start asking about that trophy) should not be shared in the interest of protecting people's privacy, etc, etc. But withholding evidence or proof of an historic nature, and complaining that people continue to get it wrong - especially when such "wrong" information is being published (as I do in the magazine) - simply doesn't make sense. Either show the evidence that supports your case, or expect that people simply won't believe it. In the absence of proof to the contrary, the established information will continue to get published and reproduced. There's no point saying "I'm right and you're wrong" if you won't show the evidence.

OK, so 3449 CKD packs shipped out between March and September. Are you talking 1961? That's 6 months. According to other sources assembly began in Australia in January or February - that makes more sense when the car was released locally on 24 March 1961 (the "birth notice" in the papers on 23 March said "Visitors welcome from tomorrow", so the actual release date must have been 24th).

Other published information I have says local pressing of panels didn't begin until March or April 1964.

So, what happened between September 1961 and March 1964?

Yes, I have heard there are different floor pressings on the very early cars. Apart from the changes made because of the water ingress problems I am not aware of what those differences entail. Details? Drawings? Technical or Service Notes?

I don't understand what you mean by the 9/ Show us some examples. See below for an early ID plate and a late ID plate. My understanding is that any plate with two numbers stamped (eg 90598 / 8010) means the car was CKD with the first number being the chassis or CKD number allocated by UK and the following number being the Australian car number. If this is not correct then show me the facts. Do you have a copy of the relevant BMC Standards?

Watto - everyone knows who I am (I have nothing to hide).

_________________
Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

Example of an early plate with the 9/



This digit was also used on most other BMC models but seems to have been deleted in 59.
You will see it on Morris Majors and Morris Minors in 58 and 59 but not in 60 or onwards. (Majors being locally made and Minors being CKD assembled)
I don't know why the Minis in 61 got it again when it seems that no other CKD car got it.

terminated

Well said Watto.

Share the information Mr Sprots850man. That is what Ausmini.com.au is all about

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality (or Crappy Workmanship) remains LONG AFTER the Sweet Taste of Low Price is forgotten.

What does 6, 7 and 8 mean?

9 Does not mean CKD bodyshell. 9 means 1959.

Well!!

Just looking over the fence. Maybe sports850man may have dates available for SALE and ARRIVAL of CKD kits to BMC Australia mixed up ?

Also maybe he is saying,,there where 3449 CKD kits that come out as the early shipment ? as we all know they did continue on until we started to make them ourselves 63/64.

Regarding the 9/ on the ID plate, I think we might find that the 9/ may not appear after the first 3449 kits were sent to Australia. (We don't know were the 3449 number comes from)

We have Car Number 71242/4415 at it has no 9/ on it.

Peter & Karen Morris

_________________

terminated