Ah, even the factory can get it wrong, though. See, the engine number for Cooper S, 1275 - 12FA/SA/H. Has anyone got one of these?

They also have the release date for the Morris 850 as April 1961, when we do know for a fact that it was 29 March 1961 (2 days before April - pedantic, I know). and they have the release date for the Cooper (997) as December 1962, when it was November 1962.

Interestingly, there are no release dates for the Mini Minor, Van, Deluxe or Cooper S.

What is the date of this parts book? Does anyone have a later parts book with the same information, but more info on the later models?

I just love shooting holes...

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Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

The Cooper S engine number is a good one, it really should have a 12 but they kept the 9 for homologation purposes.
As if anyone would believe the 1275 is an evolution of the 997! But if you are trying to fudge numbers...

The date on this book is February 65, that could explain the lack of release dates!

Terrific, thanks Michael.

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Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

Mini Parts book HYL3262, April 1964, "Use local Engine Numbers" is interesting as well, as under the local content rules, a locally "assembled" engine would have earned more points.

But does that mean that (for example) 848cc engine parts were imported and assembled...or manufactured and assembled

[PS what a terrific (Watto's word for the day! ) thread this is...just luvin it ]

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"Show me the Mini!"

An interesting point.

According to Peter Davis and other information I have researched, all 850 engines were imported CBU. Apparently only some 998 engines and then all 1098 engines were assembled in Australia from mostly CKD parts - assembly of imported components counted toward local content if the parts could not be manufactured economically in Australia.

BUT - the above page from HYL3262 seems to suggest that local assembly of 848cc engines began with engine number 8Y/U/H 1001 from body number 41866. That is some 20,000 cars before the end of Morris 850 production. It also suggests that all Mini Van engines were locally assembled, as well as Mini Minor (YDO4) and Mini Minor Van (YDO4V).

In terms of dating, that would line up to early 1964, at the time of Van introduction, and a little before the start of 998cc Cooper engine assembly, 1 September 1964.

This research job is a veritable minefield. How much easier it would have been if the factory records had not been destroyed, but instead passed on to some archive somewhere. If only...

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Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

Hmmmmm...maybe the short (pun intended) run of 850 engines was used to ramp up and finesse the local engine production line even if it was only the assembly and running-in procedures

Shirley, someone in the Heritage Group should have some knowledge of what went on

_________________
"Show me the Mini!"

I have watched with interest the discussion within this topic. Two items I wish to comment upon, namely:

1. 850 Build Number Prefix 9
After reading the BMC Service Bulletin Gen9 I decide to check the 850's in the data base which fell into this catergory. The last vehicle I have listed is 9/61993/2745 which would have been built June 1961. From that point on the "9" does not form part of the number.

2. Gutter Drain Holes
I decided to check my other car, a 1963 model, for drain holes today. The rear of the car is fitted with four drain holes, two each side of 3/16" diameter. At the front there are no holes, the roof panel has one hole drilled or punched through it at ecah corner however after assembly of all panels the holes have not been drilled through, they were simply filled with some form of sealant. Just another anomaly within BMC history.

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John Sneddon
0408 431 807
1963 Morris Cooper
1965 Morris 850
1968 Morris Cooper S

Some of what has been discussed will be in Peter Davis' book, due for publication in September. Peter has an amazing memory of what went on.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

I am looking forward to it.

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Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

It will be a hard book to write. To show evidence when referring to changes if written from Memory's.

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It's written from memory and evidence. Also a facility to enable updating as new information comes to hand.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

I know Peter has put a lot of research into the book. It is not just or mostly written from memory.

We have had many emails back and forth as new information comes up and as evidence is found.

Much of the information has come from BMC and Leyland Australia Standards and from photos of existing ID and compliance plates from a wide range of vehicles.

The memory side of things is probably more about the goings on in the factory and as Peter was in a prominent position within the management of Product Engineering, where most of these decisions were made, and he has very good recall, then the book should be quite enlightening. That being said, the book will probably appeal mostly to the anoraks among us, like myself, who like to get the nitty gritty of the facts.

However, as Peter admits, what was decided in Product Engineering wasn't always adhered to on the factory floor, particularly with Pressed Metal Corporation when it was an independent concern working under contract for BMC - such as with the MGA. Also, some information that was decided on in the UK was changed or not used in Australia, which makes for a bit more confusion.

Then there were also simple mistakes that took place on individual plates - and I have quite a few examples. And sometimes what appears to be a mistake was not, but was something decided on either in Production management or Product Engineering.

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Watto .
Photojournalist
Mini historian and enthusiast
http://www.theminiexperience.com.au

Would be good to find the reason why engine numbers were sometimes machine stamped from the rear. Special orders - First car of the day or Factory restamped due to engine faults.

It would be good for all of the discussions about production and numbers and even engine numbers if the state registration authorities had a database that could be checked for the registered details...

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Cheers
Alec
1275LS - July 78 - XNFAD18Y/102918

Geeeez you want EVERYTHING

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"Show me the Mini!"