K&N E-9001 these are only 44mm high

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1970 MK2 Cooper S

righty-o,,, i`ve found a few, soooo... who wants a pair?
Matt
0407 135 656

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Yes mate i will take 2
Marc

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1970 MK2 Cooper S

i have these 2 types



now i think (& my book also tells me) that the one on the left is the Mk1 type
& the one on the right is Mk2
but i`m not 100% sure & i`m not even sure if the change-over was actually at the same change as MK1 & Mk2,,, i`m thinking the factory ran out & had another batch made & probably to do with the difference between the Phomy & the Aussie air-filter housing difference maybe?, John Smidt will know more than me... i wish dad could come back from the dead & enlighten us all

my book lists the left one as MK1 17H8380 @ 1&1/4" long
the one on the left as Mk2 12G2705 (no length listed) but is obviously slightly longer than the other

this is the one on the left ,,, i have a few pairs of these-->


this is the one on the right, i only have one pair of these & are not going anywhere (sorry, they`re for my set of twins)

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

If you have any left, I would like a pair please.

cheers
John

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johnl

Yes Matt I've tried to figure this out too. The ones with the more rounded wings are also often fractionally too fat to fit in a Mk1 lid unless the holes are worn or adjusted larger.

I think some of the later thinner air boxes may have used these wing nuts and as you say there may have been some mk2 with these.

I know someone with a very original Aussie Mk2 with the thin air box and rounded wingnuts.

When you look at later English Mk 3 Cooper s u start to see the rounded wingnuts too.

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68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

righty-o,,, my clubmban book shows the GT twin-carb wing nut to be p/# 17H8380
soooo, that leads me to believe that the very first wing-nut for the MK1 "S" twin carb air-filter housing would have to have been the 12G2705,,, & somewhere they changed over to the 17H8380 # ,,, & """Possibly""" the slight change in shape with it at that time which looks to be somewhere in the middle of the MK2 "S" production,,, maybe?

again all this is purely a big Maybe from me, but quite often the factory here in Aus ran out of parts & had things "re-Made" or in this instance more likely re-ordered to the later version from Phomgolia?

where`s John Shmidt when you want some Genuine Leyland Aust Parts history???
or Winnabbe??
who else knows this sh!t?

all i know is i`ve got what looks like the correct set for me & these others look more like the right set to everyone else

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Like you say, Matt, the parts books and fiche are a little confusing on this topic. Part numbers are certainly listed but there isn't consistency.

The early parts book HYL3262 for the Mark 1 Cooper S shows the wing nut as 17H8380.

Later parts book PUB1056M for the MK II Cooper S shows 12G2705.

Curiously, the Clubman parts book PUB1052 reverts to the earlier 17H8380 but the much later Mini parts microfiche shows 12G2705.

Below is a picture of the Clubman GT engine in the crash test photos. Make your own decision on whether it's like either of Matt's nuts.

If you want to research further here's a link to Somerford's parts page. Hover your pointer over the number in the exploded diagram to see more info on that part. For example, it shows the part numbers for the various twin SU air cleaners used during Cooper and Cooper S production.

http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... age&id=159

Finally, don't necessarily assume the shorter wing nut was used on the narrower housing. It's possible the threaded rod in the carby throat is a different length for the different housings. Also be aware this style of wing nut was used on later air cleaner housings for single carby application, such as 998 and 1098.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

To the best of my knowledge, the wing nut with the right angle corners
was fitted to the Mk 1, and the rounded wing nut was fitted to the Mk2,
however I purchased a lot of written of police cars during the time they
were still in use, and I did notice that some of the Mk2 cars did not have
the rounded wing nuts, I would put this down to assembly.
I can honestly say I cannot remember the rounded wing nut being
fitted to the Mk 1.

Regards
John Smidt

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" A Hundred Years From Now It will not Matter what my Bank Acount Was,
The Sort Of House I Lived in, Or The Kind Of Car I drove ... But The World May Be A Better Place
Because I was Once Important In The Life Of A Child"

yep, i`m with John & winabbey,,, of course how could anyone Not be with them
my books say the same thing= confusion,,,

But (funny as things happen in the BMC factory back in the day
the Genuine very early book is printed with MK1 to be 12G 2075 (miss-print)
then my dad wrote in there MK1 as 12G2705 to correct the miss-print

then he writes that 17H8380 is the later one

& all the information & pics & original cars "S"`s that i`ve seen over the years suggests to me that
the MK1 "S" came with the pointy (more square type) & also "some" MK2s got them & somewhere along the way they changed to the rounded type,,, & my suggestion here is that they ran out of the early one & had them re-made & probably/obviously a different casting.

my Clubman book says GT took the both of them at some stage, change point printed to the right of this page (but no engine number or car number listed as the change point)



But then again,,, My books often show what a whole pile of other books don`t

so,,,, then we have the "Length" issue,,, seems to me that there`s quite a few different lengths as well,,, not that it really matters & possibly people cut them down & changed stud lengths as Winabbey suggests & i can only agree,,, but my book says the later one (17H8380) is 1&1/4" long shank... but no measurement listed for the Mk1 type,,, but they are definitely longer (the ones i have anyways)

i wish i had more time for more research on these sorts of things, but i have about 5million engines to build & a whole pile of minis & mokes sitting here awaiting my attention
sorry that i can`t add anymore at this stage but i will endevour to attack this topic more at some stage later on.
cheers & hope i`ve helped in some way.

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Is that a pointy fence you are sitting on Matt

John and Winnabey are actually saying the opposite of each other

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1964 998cc Cooper
1971 Mini K x 2
1972 Clubman GT

I hope not.

The picture of the crash test GT engine bay shows the rounded style that John and I reckon is for the GT and MK II S (with shallower air filter box). In his first post with photos Matt said he thought this style was for the Mark 1 Cooper S, but wasn't sure. The photo below of a UK MK III Cooper S engine bay shows the shallow filter box, with angled cut-out near the washer bottle and rounded wing nuts.

That leaves the style with pointier corners as being for the Cooper (after the pancake filters were discontinued) and the Mark 1 Cooper S with deeper filter box (and perhaps early MK II's?). Photo below shows this to be the case. Photos in several Australian Mark 1 Cooper S road test articles from the 1960's that I looked at also support this. Mick's earlier photo is the same.

Both photos below courtesy of John Parnell's excellent book - Original Mini Cooper & Cooper S.

I've yet to see anything that irrefutably allocates BMC part numbers to these two items, although they can be inferred by what's in the parts books.

Also, I haven't found a change point as to when the shallower box replaced the deeper box in Australian production.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

this is the air box on my mk1

While it's doubtful BMC Leyland would bother to document a change in wingnuts (especially if the only difference is visual) wouldn't there have to be some service note regarding the air filters. I imagine filters for each would not be interchangeable.
I'm guessing the shallower box was designed to accept the more common filter for a single 1.25 SU.

Question: The Cooper S and GT engines were imported from UK. In what state did they arrive. I assume things like carbies and air filter boxes were then added from local stock here that was imported from uk separately?? Did we make any air boxes here??

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68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

Doug,
I find this photo very confusing.
The fact that it is showing a radiator end engine steady bar.
To my knowledge that is not standard on a Australian Clubman GT. ( I have owned and parted out a few, Few too many I guess in years gone by)
Also the Crankcase ventilation plumbing is not consistent with an early Australian Clubman GT.
That crankcase ventilation system was used only on cars fitted with the Cast in Tappet type Block which did not appear until later in production.
I would also question that Unipart air cleaner sticker as being correct for that era.

Would like to know a little more about that photo, where it came from, very Iffy IMHO

Dave

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