Hi,

I am new to this forum but have been into Minis for many years.

I am hoping that the forum brains trust will be able to help me in regards to a mini I have sitting in the shed.

The identification plate reads as follows:

Car type is YKG2S2, number 3042

The engine number is

9F/Sa/y 45507

The colour is all over Toga White

The car has 3042 stamped just below the ID plate position. The number 2524 is stamped on the radiator shroud. Also on the radiator shroud is what looks like an M. The M has been stamped 90 degrees, facing forwards from the 2524 number.

The engine is stamped 9F/Sa/y 45507.

The car has been repainted green at sometime in its life. I took the paint off around the radiator shroud and the firewall area where the 3042 number is stamped. The white colour is evident directly under the green paint in all areas and there are no signs of any patch type repairs in those areas.

The windscreen wipers park on the drivers side and the wiper motor is stamped 6 67. It has an earthing lead soldered to the cover plate.

The car has mk1 floors by the looks, except the passenger floor has had a terrible repair carried out. Are Mk1 floor panels available?

The car has twin tanks with the right hand tank having the flat straps with round smooth like bolt heads securing it. Visible behind rear seat.

The wiring is all the old fabric type insulated stuff and there is evidence of sound proofing under the rear parcel shelf.

The dash has vinyl applied to the upper and lower surfaces along with a chrome steering wheel bracket. These could have been added at anytime I guess.

The car has no flares and has the correct badges and bumpers.

The disc brakes are correct and the wheels are 10 inch steel wheels with nine holes.

Now for the I am not too sure part.

The car ID plate was removed during the green paint job as it is green underneath the plate. The weird thing with the ID plate is that the engine number is stamped from the back of the plate, neatly like the rest of the stamping. All other plates I have seen have the engine number stamped from the front and in large type font. The ID plate is a BMC (Australia) plate and looks genuine. It looks the same physically as all the others I have seen. It has the usual "guarantee ceases on removal of this plate" warnings. The black paint is wearing off like normal also.

The second not right thing is that it has rubber cone suspension. I am guessing this was replaced at some point during its hill climbing career. The battery location triangle is still stuck to the boot lid.

Any information would be great regarding this car. The poor old thing has been sitting in my shed now for many years and needs a resto. It has so many Cooper S traits but the ID plate is a little strange.

Thanks in advance,

Linton

Other than the rubber cones it sounds like it's got the right bits and numbers. M2 / 06 should be on the rad shroud. If the ID plate looks new I would say it was restamped to match a new engine number.
Any photos
Car YKG2S2 3000 Has engine 45592 Dated 08/67

Hi Linton,

I would be a bit concerned over the ID plate engine number stamping but not really worried.
I have seen some other cars that should have been stamped from the front that have been stamped from the rear but not on the Cooper S (I have seen it on everything else though!)

On the radiator shroud panel where you found the M it should have M2 and 06 below it. This is often sideways or even upside down compared to the number and sometimes that badly done you can't read it! It is also a slightly different size and shape stamps to the body number.

Everything else seems to be correct, does it have the fuel pump vent under the rear seat?

The reverse stamping has come up from time to time, and was certainly prevalent on the riveted engine block id tags. Its not something the average mug can do, so take heart, you need a set of stamps which read normally, as normal stamps are created backwards.

The clues will be in the bodywork, more than what is applied to it in parts, This includes the stamps.
How is the tank support attached to the floor? The fuel tank breather tags, underfloor breather, etc?

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

Hi Linton
Welcome to the forum. The ID plate for my 1966 Mk 1 Cooper S also has the engine number neatly stamped from behind, the same as all the other stampings on the plate. I've always taken this to indicate that my car was a special order from the factory. It is one of the few factory black Mk 1 S's about. I also agree that your car sounds like its got the right bits and numbers except for the rubber cone suspension. My car was also converted to rubber cone suspension early in its life as it too has a competition history.

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Steve

Not the first time ID plates have appeared with the engine numbers stamped from behind. If they are genuine there may be a logical explanation. I'm interested in others thoughts on this though.

Assumedly the normal procedure was that the plate was prepared with the details (less the engine number) and fitted to the car. Later, further along the production line when the motor was fitted, the number was stamped in from the front.

One theory I had (only a theory) was that if a motor was replaced at the factory for some reason then they would make up a new plate for the car, ....and in this case they could just type up the whole thing in the machine that punched out the plates.

The numbers you quote sound correct though. Would be good if you could clearly see the M2/06 but they seem to be often very poorly stamped.

The Engine Number sounds about right for a car of that Car No.

Do you have a photo of the plate. The way the various numbers and letters line up will often show if it is genuine. Because the later plates were stamped in a machine the way every thing lines up is pretty consistent. Even little inconsistencies such as letters being slightly out of line shows up over and over.

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68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

I was just looking at my ID plate photos, it appears more common than I thought to have all the digits stamped from the rear.
It is still only about one in a hundred but I was thinking it was about one in a thousand!

Phil, I was wondering if it was something silly like the first plate of the day got the full stamping.

Yes, I think the explanation could revolve around the car being handled or assembled differently for some reason, (special order, or a problem or fault which meant the car was removed from the line), perhaps in justminis case "BLACK" was not normally setup in the plate stamper so they prepared the plate later/separately.

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68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

All the cars assembled in the main assembly car assembly building have a fully stamped plate, every Morris 1100, Austin Freeway and Wolseley 24/80 in my collection of photos.
The Minis and Mokes were assembled in the CKD building.

I imagine there was only one machine in the plant, I wonder if the plates were stamped in the main plant and taken over to the CKD plant in batches?

I don't think the colour would be the reason, the body would have been made dipped and painted well before the plate was stamped. None of the other special colours that I have in my collection have rear stamped engine numbers.

I like this idea (although a strong case would have to be put with a few extra examples) as the machine to create the custom plate is separate from the series production of plates which would have taken place when their production is in the order of thousands at a time. The plate is created separately prescribing a particular engine to a car number. When married up the car number may then differ due to quality control issues.

I would put as above, a plate created at the side of the production line because of a car out of sequence with the rest, a lost plate, an unexpected number, an engine which has turned up out of sequence because of rework or a manufacturing error in the plate or car numbering. There will be real world reasons for an ad-hoc plate creation at the assembly line and probably quite reasonable when explained in a real world context of manufacturing errors.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

What I know about my car from the original owner is that he ordered it in November 1965 as a Black car and it was delivered in March 1966. Not sure if this is any different to what happened back then when a customer wanted a particular colour. As said, I've just assumed it was a special order and that's how it came.

Be good to know a bit more about how orders for particular colours were handled and the reason/s for reversed stamped engine numbers.

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Steve

Wow what a forum! Thank for all the fast replies.

I just wrote a huge reply back to everyone individually but when I went to submit it, I had to re-sign on and I lost the whole thing. Because I don't know how to reply individually and I don't want to write war and peace again I will just answer a few of the questions.

There is a fuel vent located under the rear seat on the left hand side. It is positioned on a raised section on the upper left side. It looks like it may be made of whitish plastic?

In regards to the radiator shroud number, I can just make out the round top of a number 2 following the M. That is it though. The rest is not visible, even looking from underneath.

The ID plate does not look new at all. I guess it could have had an engine change quite a while ago though!

I am not sure how the fuel tank is bolted to the floor. It looks like there is a strap running over the top of the R/H tank and then it's bolted to the floor. It looks very similar to the left hand tank.

The fuel line tabs look like they are welded onto the back of the rear seat panel. They are not riveted.

I had this hope that perhaps the Bathurst cars had this unusual ID plate engine stamping. My theory was that they knew which engines were being fitted to the cars. I just made all that up of course ha ha.

When I work out how to post a picture I will of the ID plate.

Thanks for all your help,

Linton

The numbers you have quoted appear in the Cooper S register. Only additional piece of information is the interior, which is listed as blue but with a question mark. The numbers indicate an Aug/Sept 67 delivery date.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

Hi Winabbey,

Yes I offered the car numbers up to a fellow (I think he was the editor of the mini magazine) who was after Cooper S numbers for a register. After I had sent the numbers in I had a reply saying that those numbers had not been submitted previously. That gave me a warm and fuzzy in that at least to this point there are not two versions of 3042 getting around. Where do I find this register?

I am not sure of the interior colour. The seat belts are blue if that helps.

Your estimate for delivery date sounds good for the windscreen motor date of 6 67 however the boot lock has 10 67 stamped on it? Could have been changed I guess?

Linton

OK, that makes sense. The guy you are talking about is Craig Watson (Watto), editor of The Mini Experience magazine, now called The BMC Experience. I am one of a couple of 'helpers' who maintain the register for Watto and answer queries upon request. He plans to publish it in some form once there's a critical mass of data. It may appear as a supplement to the magazine or a listing on a website somewhere.

I wouldn't rule out an October delivery date. The data isn't that precise.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43